Veterinary Industry Insiders: Joey Campagna

Veterinary Industry Insiders: Joey Campagna

Hello everyone. This is David Hall, co-founder of GeniusVets. Welcome back to another episode of Veterinary Industry Insiders. We got a fantastic show for you today. Very excited to be bringing on a brilliant guest from an awesome company that we're very excited for you guys to know about. Today we have joining us the executive Vice President of Marketing from CUBEX, Joey Campagna. Joey has chosen to serve the veterinarian industry out of a deep and abiding respect for the profession, as well as admiration for the professionals themselves. In nearly 15 years at IDEX laboratories, Joey filled various sales and marketing roles and is currently the EVP of marketing and business development for CUBEX. CUBEX is the industry leader in inventory automation, very passionate about the veterinary industry, and strives to help practices address common issues and concerns when it comes to narcotic safety and inventory management. For over a decade, CUBEX has been reducing the amount of labor needed for tracking DEA logs and inventory logs, and supply ordering by providing automated dispensing, automatic inventory tracking, extra security, and much more. This helps create a safer, more profitable, and more efficient environment for veterinary practices. 

 

I've had the chance to get the demo and to talk to you guys at a few different shows, and I've seen a number we've been approached here at GeniusVets by a number of different solutions in this space because there are certainly some solutions that are needed and I've always kind of looked at them as, oh, well, what about if you had this and what if you had that? And you guys just have this really fantastic system that you've created that I think is really sitting at the top of what's available right now. So very excited to have you come on and help talk with our audience about how you guys are addressing some of these really pressing concerns for the industry.

 

 

Well, thanks so much, David and they are pressing concerns. It's still relatively early days in this category. Over 90% of human hospitals have some form of automated dispensing, but in vet med, it's less than 10%. Um, so those parts practices, yeah, it's huge.

It's just grab and go in the pharmacy, you know? So yeah, if you tell a human nurse who's used to working in an acute care environment, that they could just stroll into the back of a veterinary hospital and grab pill bottles off of shelves, their minds are blown. Particularly with controlled substances and yes, you know, notionally, they're in the lockbox. And I use air quotes for the lock part of that because if anybody who has spent time in the back of a veterinary practice, they know that a lot of times that lockbox is either left open or the keys left in it because you don't want to have to try and chase the key holder down when you need something quickly. So the most convenient thing to do is just leave it kind of hanging open, and we see that all the time.

So yeah, the standards for sure are different. What has changed recently is the amount of attention that this whole category is getting. And so CUBEX is kind of blown up a little bit over the last two or three years. 2021 was our biggest year ever by a long shot and 2022 is already like, we can't keep up with a lot of companies, you know, the demand has begun to sort of overwhelm supply a little bit. And that's probably our biggest challenge right now is making sure we have enough units to spread around cuz the orders just don't stop.

 

I think this is something that you'll get to the point over the next few years. I mean, good for you guys to get to the point where this is just standard in most hospitals. And so I think it's just something people really need to know about right now. You guys overall, you've got three main kinds of areas of concern problems that you're addressing. You've got inventory management, you've got the protection of control substances and then you've got looking at the cost of goods sold. So why don't we jump into each of those categories one by one? Why don't you start by telling me a little bit about, you know, your approach to inventory management and what you do there?

So I mean that word means different things to different people, right? But the common thread between all of those different explanations that you'll hear is time, right? Because this is a task that is either done, right, and has a lot of time invested in it, or is just neglected and costs a lot of money on the back end. And of course, as we all know, time is at a tremendous premium right now. Just about every practice has at least one open headcount. Everybody’s looking for another tech or another doctor, sometimes multiples of each. And so the last thing any practice wants to devote lots of staff time to is inventory management, manual inventory tasks because it's not value-added time. That is not time that generates a lot of revenue for the practice. And frankly, it's not time that the clinician wants to invest in that activity. They'd much rather be providing patient care. That's why they spent years in school. That's why they decided to stay in the profession. That's why they got up that morning just to go help dogs and cats get better, not to fill out purchase orders or update manual narcotics logs. Right?

So that's probably the first, most important benefit that we provide in the environment. We're all in right now where everybody is so super busy. We've got 40% of the practice, according to the ABMA that's on the verge of burnout. Nobody can hire as much staff as they wanna hire. So we provide that benefit of automation and the principal benefit is time. We're gonna take those tasks that nobody really wants to do, and we're gonna give it to a robot because the robot's gonna do it better. They're gonna do it more quickly. And then you're gonna have time that you can get back to your own human staff members to go do the things they wanna do.

 

So when I hear you talk about increased time savings, really in just increasing the efficiency of the staff that you currently have, can you, can you kind of quantify fire that for me, give us an example of how that really calculates out.

Yeah, sure. So let's look at controlled substances because that's usually where practices wanna start a conversation with us. That is, if you think about it, it's part of the inventory. And we're trying to talk more about dangerous drugs now than controlled substances. If you think of the Venn diagram, dangerous drugs are like a bigger circle, and controlled substances sort of sit within that circle. So dangerous drugs are inclusive of all controlled substances, plus some drugs that aren't technically controlled by the federal government, but that are by many states like Gabapentin. And then other drugs that are powerful or items that have a lot of impact and potential to cause harm like prescription pads, for example, that need to be managed the way that you manage controlled substances.

But let's start with controlled substances. We did a time in motion study for a very large corporate client that is interested in deploying CUBEX solutions across every one of their practices to manage their dangerous drugs. And they wanted to know something really simple, which is how much time we spend on this today. So the average practice, there are 2.1 full-time equivalent veterinarians, and they access controlled drugs 18 times per day on average. And it took them three minutes to complete every transaction. So that's about an hour a day spent just logging controlled substance dispenses that doesn't include intake or resolving discrepancies or cycle counting or anything like that. Just dispensing was like 54 minutes.

Your phone is double-checking your calculations on that. It's like, hold on, let me, okay, I checked that. I know it's like, dude, you're off by three minutes. So then we looked at CUBEX, so instead of three minutes, 30 seconds. So we were able to save almost an hour of time a day, every day. Three minutes, you reduced it down to 30 seconds. So 1830 seconds went from an hour down to nine minutes.

So it's like 45 minutes a day that we're putting back in their pocket. And that's not just about the tech time and the wage and all that, it's the opportunity cost of that time. What else would that technician be doing if they weren't manually updating a controlled drug log, like a medieval monk, handwriting the Bible. It blows my mind that practices that are really very sophisticated in every other way still have a three-ring notebook that people write in for this stuff. So 45 minutes a day of time, and the investment for the practice is like 20 bucks a day for the solution. So the opportunity cost of that time, every technician should be generating at least a hundred to $150 of revenue an hour. So it's like a no-brainer.

 

Yeah, absolutely. Let's talk a little bit about the next one of those points: protecting the controlled substances and that improved accuracy around the record-keeping, as I know that there are some serious reporting requirements for some of that, potentially, if they decide to come and take a look at you.

So one of the things that we hear from practice owners, an unfortunately high number of times, or a high percentage of the time, is within 90 days of bringing CUBEX in, I found out that somebody on our staff was diverting controlled substances. And this is something that I think a lot of practices have some cognitive dissonance around, as nobody on my staff would ever, I know everyone on my staff so well. I interviewed them. I hired them. They've been with us for nine years. I can't imagine Kelly ever doing something like that. And, again, more often than not, we're starting the conversation with practices around controlled substances. And, you know, sometimes that conversation's starting because the practice owner is running into discrepancies in the logbook and they want to get to the bottom of it.

So not only is this a $15,400 fine per infraction, if the DEA pays you a visit and finds an issue. Not only does it potentially put your license at risk of suspension or revocation, but it also puts human beings at risk within the practice. Because as most of us know now, I think three years ago, this probably wasn't the case, but after all the focus on mental health, through COVID, I think this has become a more diffused message. Most of us now know that veterinarians are at dramatically higher risk for suicide than the general population. And by veterinarians, I should have said anyone in a veterinary clinical profession, whether you're a tech, a nurse, a veterinarian that there, it's three to four X the risk. And, you know, when we look at this epidemic, we have to look at motive means and opportunity, right?

So, the motive is often temporal. It's transient, it's built on the sort of systemic challenges that people have in their own lives. And sometimes it's on the back of a mental health challenge, that CUBEX in no way, shape, or form is gonna solve. But what we can help with is the means and the opportunity and the means are very often controlled drugs within the practice. Every veterinarian knows what it takes to put an animal to sleep, to euthanize an animal. I mean it's a function of dosage and body weight, and every veterinarian knows where those drugs are in the practice. And so they've got ready access to those means, which often become an enabler for self-harm or suicide. And the opportunity can often arise in a situation where someone's working by themselves at the end of the day. Andy Rourke talks about this really a lot more eloquently than I do, or that I can, because I'm not a clinician. But it's that end of the day period of time where you're kind of between two worlds. You've had an exhausting day at work, and then you're getting ready to go home to face an exhausting day of making dinner for the family or dealing with challenges at home. And there's not a check there in place.

So what CUBEX does is it secures the means. Everything is locked in its own individual compartment, and we can also reduce the opportunity for risk or self-harm by requiring a second individual to be present, whether it's for schedule two narcotics or really any dangerous drug. So again, it doesn't prevent anything, but it does act as an effective deterrent and kind of a speed bump to impede somebody who's looking to illegally divert controlled substances, or God forbid make a mistake, and hurt themselves.

 

Do you have some statistics here, I know it's a touchy thing for a lot of practices to get into, but…

Yeah. So this is interesting. Well, so there are a couple of things. First of all, I think for a lot of practices, this kind of risk is really existential either for a person or for the practice. As I said, the DEA fine is a little over $15,000, and they never find just one infraction. You know, we've talked to practices that have sort of the beginning of the conversation with the DEA is well into six figures worth of fines because of discrepancies and logbooks. And then they try to negotiate that down. And a lot of times, bringing CUBEX in is sort of part of the rehabilitation plan for the practice where they'll try to show good faith by getting this under control.

But if a practitioner gets their license suspended, I mean, that’s it. They can't earn a living, at least as a veterinarian. And so that's incredibly expensive. That's qualitative. People's health and livelihood in life are qualitative. That's not something you can put a value on. So what we hear from customers here, isn't so much, boy, what a great return on investment I've seen with CUBEX, It's, wow, do I sleep better now that I know that this is being addressed. Or, you know, I love the fact that I can see at any given point in time when the last cycle count was done on Tramadol in my practice because, before CUBEX, I had no idea if anybody had done a cycle count in the last three months. Now I can see it was done on Tuesday by Kelly and the next one should be done on Sunday night or whatever it is.

So there's an awareness there. The third thing we talk about statistics around risk is sometimes practices want to talk about that sort of financial conversation. And one of the things that I realized early on in my time here after coming, I spent 15 years at the diagnostics before that I spent four years in the army, was that practices often charge a pharmacy fee or a dispensing fee, but they used the same charge for every drug, regardless of whether or not it was a controlled substance or not, or alleged drug, which just blew my mind. So let's say you've got like a $7 pharmacy fee, right? You're gonna charge the same $7 for Apoquel as you do for ketamine, or for Tramadol let's say. Well, the federal government doesn't care what you do with Apoquel, that's an alleged drug, but Tramadol can lose your license. And you've gotta literally document every single dose as it comes in. And then as it either is dispensed to a patient, administered in the practice, or as it's wasted.

So there's a serious administrative burden with Tramadol that isn't there for Apoquell, but we're charging seven bucks for the same thing. So, you know, again, we go back to that 18 dispenses a day that we talked about earlier. Let's say you decide to add $5 onto that $7 fee. So now you're gonna charge 12 bucks for every drug that requires manual tracking that's a controlled substance. Well, that's another $90 of income almost that you're gonna generate for the practice because you kind of right-sized the fee structure at the practice. And again, that's gonna more than pay for the automated dispensing system that you need in order to make it safer.

 

Part of what I wanna talk about though, you kind of, you mentioned the first thing that people talk about with you, your clients, customers talk about, isn't necessarily the return on investment, but you guys actually are producing some pretty impressive return on investment through not just the time savings and those sort of things that, right there, should be considered in that equation, but reducing the cost of goods sold. Talk about that a little bit.

Yeah, certainly. So again, those conversations usually start with controlled substances, but there are basically four areas of the practice where we can manage inventory and have a big financial impact. So the first, again, controlled substances. That sort of sits within the treatment area, but we talk about them as though they're two separate areas. So it's kind of like controlled substances and then everything else in treatment. The pharmacy and then the supply room, right? So those four areas, and in each of those four areas, you have human beings trying to go through a multi-step process and make no mistakes in order to ensure that revenue is collected efficiently.

And, and so this, we talked about cognitive dissonance earlier. This is probably the biggest area of cognitive dissonance. We get into this, basically, what we're saying is people in your practice are making mistakes and missing stuff in the process of their day-to-day work. And there are two kinds of practices: practices that readily admit this and practices that are in denial about it. We talk to both and it's okay. A lot of practices can't resolve that cognitive dissonance because it forces you to admit that there is something amiss in the state of Denmark, right. There's something going on in the practice that needs fixing.

So again, it sounds simple, but it's actually pretty complicated. Let's say you're Dr. Hall and I'm the technician. So, you're the doctor you tell me I need a dose of buprenorphine, right? So, I now, as a technician, what I should do, if you haven't done it already, is to go into my practice management system and enter that request. But let's say we're in an emergent care environment and we have a patient that's critical, and there are 14 other things going on in the treatment area. And you just yell at me across the room, get me a CC of buprenorphine. You haven't entered that into the computer. I want that patient to survive and thrive. Patient care is number one on my mind. So do I go over to the computer? Maybe, maybe not. Do I run over to the controlled drug cabinet to get the drug? Yes. That's where I go. I go to get the drugs and I open that cabinet. And there's a binder there that I'm supposed to log this transaction in. Do I log that transaction right now? Maybe I do. Maybe I get the drug out and I say, I'm gonna log that right after I give this to Dr. Hall because Dr. Hall needs this drug right away. So I draw the drug up and I say, I'm gonna log this later. Right? And then I give Dr. Hall the drug, he is gonna administer the drug to the patient. So a couple of things have happened there, right? Number one, I've potentially not logged a transaction. The controlled drugs. Number two, I've missed out on some revenue, right? Because this transaction never hit the books. And buprenorphine may or may not be the best example because this is a controlled drug. It happens a lot with like Serenia or other antiemetics. Anything that you're gonna use in a treatment environment, particularly injections, that are often sort of asked for verbally and don't hit the pens.

So with CUBEX, we have hardware in the way of that ad hoc manual process. That's gonna result in a mischarge because the doctors, you're gonna tell me to go get a CC of buprenorphine, instead of going over to a lockbox with a key that's already in it, or pulling the key outta my pocket, just opening the lockbox and getting the drug out. I'm gonna walk up to the CUBEX terminal and I'm gonna put my fingerprint on it. As soon as I do, it knows it's Joey, the technician, I'm gonna have to pull up the patient they're already gonna be there cuz they're in the hospital, right? So they're in the computer system. If they're not there, I can just choose stat patient. And I don't have to type anything in if, especially if we got a deceasing patient or something really urgent, I don't have to take forever and put anything.

So my fingerprint is there, I choose the patient's name, and then I choose one CC of buprenorphine as something I need to be dispensed. The drawer is gonna open. I'm gonna get access to only buprenorphine. And then I'm gonna draw my one CC out. And then I'm gonna go on my way now again if we look at what went wrong, the first time I missed the log and I missed the charge. Now, what happens with CUBEX? Well, CUBEX knows the patient and it knows the drug. So it's going to log that for me. I don't have to go back and write anything.

It's also gonna make sure, it's also gonna send that charge over to my AVImark system or ezyVet or Cornerstone or whatever I've got at the practice. So that the pet parent is billed properly. So like that right there, that might be $40 of revenue that would've been missed and is not missed with CUBEX. What does that all translate to? So, in an average practice, we say we can reduce cogs by three or four percentage points. In some practices, we do a lot more. There's a video that'll be in the description where we went into practice with cogs, cost of goods sold, of 36%, which is not good for general practices. We want to get you down to around the low twenties. Specialty practices we can get even lower.

So cogs are in the low twenties, usually, this is 36%. And the practice is Orchid Springs Veterinary Hospital in Florida. Within 18 months, we took their cogs from 36% down to 21%, 15 points off of their cost of goods sold. Now the cost of goods sold is a function of revenue, right? So if I make a hundred dollars in revenue and my cost of goods sold is $30. My cost of goods sold is 30%. If I raise my revenue to $120 and my cost of goods stays the same at 30 bucks. Now my cogs, instead of being 30%, drop to 25%. That's what happened at Orchid Springs. We raised her revenue tremendously by $600,000 because she was missing so many charges. That's the line share of that cogs reduction.

We also do three other things. We reduce expiration, we reduce overuse, and we also reduce theft just by managing products with automation and with hardware. So expiration's one of those things we're like, oh yeah, my drug rep will swap it out for the fresh jaded product. But do you always do that? Sometimes it just winds up in the trash. Overuse is really common. This is why McDonald's puts the ketchup packets behind the counter now. I dunno if you notice that, you go to McDonald's, you have to ask them for ketchup. Because when they used to leave out in the middle, you just you'd grab a fist full of them.

So like when everything's just kinda out and open, people just use way too much. And then theft, look, everybody at practice has a pet, just about. And parasiticides, you know, flea tick preventives walk. I mean, ask any practice owner. Those are probably the biggest skew category for shrinkage cause people figure we have so much here, they're not gonna miss it. Just put a little bit in my purse. And once that product is in a locked drawer or in a CUBEX zone, it's just a lot harder for it to walk away. So if you put all that together, the revenue recapture for mischarges, reduction in expiration, theft, overuse, three to 4% of cogs and that goes right onto EBITDA directly onto EBITDA. So if you're at a 9% EBITDA today, we wanna get you to 12, 13 or so, which is a huge difference, not just monetarily, but also in the way that a potential buyer might look at the practice, you know, a 9% EBITDA is like a B minus. 13% is a lot healthier, that's like an A-minus, B plus. And that's gonna get you a much higher multiple.

 

So how would you kind of quantify the direct cost of practices that have this problem?

So, and we've seen this time and again, we've never done a case study where the ROI is less than three X, but this number keeps popping up over and over again. And that number is 25,000. So $25,000 per FTE per year is what we find the opportunity is around excess cogs. And most of that is mischarges, right? So you could almost think of it as $25,000 a year in revenue loss every year for every vet you have on the staff because things get missed. Now, that sounds like a huge number, but if we break that down to about 27 working days per month, it's about $83 per working day per vet. And all of a sudden that seems a little bit more realistic, right? Cause that's often one item that gets left off of an invoice, one invoice.

So, you know, you see 20 pets a day, 25 pets a day, 15 pets a day, doesn't really matter. If you think about all the service codes that are associated with that visit you miss one of 'em on one patient, that's your 83 bucks, right? Again, that's the average veterinarian generating 550- $600,000 worth of revenue, 25,000 to that getting missed every year, just on inventory items, just sales of a product. That’s really where we solve a lot of problems financially for practices. And that's where that ROI comes from.

 

You're really hitting on a lot of different things you guys do. Summarize for me with bullet point lists, like go over the benefits, just boom, boom, boom.

So again, right now, I'm gonna give you more staff, essentially, the staff that you can't hire right now, that you can't find, that you can't ask to come in for another shift, I'm gonna give you more time with an automated inventory assistant. You're gonna hire a robot from CUBEX to supplement your staff and to take a lot of the dirty work away from them around inventory controlled substances, all that so that they can go be happier, do more patient care stuff, less boring administrative stuff. Number one.

Number two, I'm gonna help you sleep better at night because you're not gonna be worried about that open drug cabinet. And you're absolutely not gonna be worried about all those unresolved discrepancies in that logbook, which let's face it, is totally not accurate and has a lot of unresolved issues going on there, and that's gonna help safeguard your staff and your community and your patients, really.

And then third, I'm gonna put another three to 4% on your EBITDA. CUBEX is going to put another three to 4% on your EBITDA. We're gonna return around $25,000 directly to your bottom line for every veterinarian you have on staff full-time equivalent. If we're managing all of your inventory, even with just controlled substances, it's gonna be two to three times the cost of a solution. So those are really the three we're gonna, it's the time savings, it's the sanity, and then it's the dollars.

 

So you're integrated with PIMS systems, are you integrated with all PIMS systems? Are there any that you don't integrate with?

All is a big word. Most of the ones that matter. Yes. Almost all the ones that matter. I mean, you know, ezyVet, Cornerstone, ImprMed, AVImark, DVMax. To name a few. It's rare that we don't.

 

And it's pretty one size fits all—the solution?

Well, it really, it kind of depends on those four areas. Right? So do you wanna just manage controlled substances? Do you wanna manage controlled substances and treatment, which is really where you start getting into the ROI, cause a lot of those treatment meds that cost a lot of missed revenue, Aren’t necessarily controlled. Do you wanna manage the pharmacy? Do you wanna manage the supply room? So if we're managing all four, it's kind of a different solution than just controlled substances, but it really depends on the practice. The best part about it though is that it's fully modular. So you can start with just one of those areas and then grow over time into automation around the other four. And this is a huge deal, especially if you're thinking of selling in the next three to five years because what we do is create a business system that will outlive you as a practice owner.

And that is immensely appealing to consolidators because their biggest fear when they buy the practice is as soon as Dr. Hall goes through his three-year contract and leaves, it’s not gonna be the same kind of business that the business was when he was there. And to some extent, that's always gonna be true. But the more you can automate away and the more you can systematize the value as an owner that you provide in the business, the more attractive a sale is gonna be, cuz you're not gonna be part of it for very long, usually. That's why corporate groups love CUBEX. Over 50% of our sales are the corporates because they get it. They got a lot of smart financial guys with MBAs, and all that, running the procurement and the supply chain organs of those businesses, they understand the value of CUBEX. And if you've already got it and you're looking at selling, that's one less thing they have to bring in.

 

What are the objections that you might run into when you and your team are talking to practice owners? What are the types of reasons they might come up with?

Yeah. I think the biggest one, David, is just resistance to change. It's like, well, we've always done it that way. The other sort of accelerant for change here is, frankly, generational turnover. If you hire any vet, that's like under 35, the chances are they will have used CUBEX or something analogous to it at school because most vet schools have inventory automation today. Right. So, they're going to expect that, they're certainly not gonna be surprised if it's there, and they might ask about it if you consign them to a manual logbook. So, yeah, I mean, it's resistance to change, I think that you're never gonna get away from that. But there's also, as you said earlier, I mean, I love veterinarians and veterinary technicians and everybody who decides to make this industry their profession because they're just the best people.

I come from a family with a lot of family members in human medicine. And veterinarians are just as smart, if not smarter than physicians, but they're just a little more wholesome, I think, on average. And I say, my kid brother is a thoracic surgeon, and he's a great guy. I dunno if wholesome is the word, I dunno. But they're just the best people, right? Yeah. So I say this with love, but man vets are in general can be kind of cheap when it comes to investing in themselves. They put themselves and their own practice last. So we always have that conversation with customers.

We really try to paint CUBEX as that employee that they're gonna hire because it is ongoing, it's a subscription cost. It's a synthesis of hardware, software, and support training. You're really hiring CUBEX as a firm to come in and solve this challenge for you. And so it's an ongoing cost. It's not something where you just write a big check one day and then you're done forever. It's kind of an ongoing monthly cost. So, we talk about the benefit that we're gonna provide. And when you think about it in that context, compared to like what you pay a human, CUBEX is dirt cheap. It's like slave wages.

 

No, I think that's really like the best analogy, especially given that some of the most active conversations in the industry right now if you talk to vets, what is it that you need in your practice are like, I need to hire someone, I need to hire someone. Well, maybe that vet tech that you wanna hire is a little bit hard to come by, but here's a robot that can do a bunch of stuff and make your team more. I think that analogy to it being a hire really is a good one for you guys.

And so that's what, and again, one of the challenges that we have, frankly, is just scale on time. We're trying to reach out to everybody that's interested in this. And I mean, I'll sit here and see four or five, six inbound inquiries come in every day for a product like, Hey, I'd like to talk about CUBEX mini or mini plus, or what have you. And then getting out to that customer and getting them a solution when they need it. Right now, we're booking out about nine weeks or so from order to delivery. We'd love for that to be like three or four. But we're just, that's where things are today. So as soon as we start talking with customers, we try to set that expectation that this isn't something you're gonna be able to get next week, if you want it two months from now, we've gotta figure out how to make that decision relatively quickly cuz it can turn into a lot of time. But a lot of companies are dealing with that same issue right now.

 

How do they get a hold of you guys—what's the best way to get in touch with you and check it out?

Well. First of all, I have to say, David, GeniusVets is awesome. I mean, this is so needed in this industry, and it's like one of the things of the last couple of years I've said, oh man, I should have thought of that, but you did. And I'm glad you did, you could, because it's so needed. So I'd say, if you're listening to our podcast, you can always go, you can just write to us if you're interested in learning more about the solution, you can write to us at [email protected] or [email protected] We'll get that. You can go to CUBEX.com—our domain, our website. So you can learn a little bit more about it there. There are gonna be some links to some videos in the description, so you can watch those. Personally, you can always reach out to me personally cuz I'm the GeniusVets sort of point of contact. I'm [email protected]

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Well, thanks so much everybody for taking some time out of your busy day. We know that you have a lot of animals to take care of, lives to save, and are doing really fantastic things. If you haven't already, please go to Geniusvets.com because we do already have, right now live, a full-page profile featuring your veterinary practice. It's true. Go to geniusvets.com. You can look it up by state, by city, put it in the name of your practice and you can find it. They're free to claim and rank really high in Google search results. So please go on and check it out. There are a tremendous amount of other things that we offer totally free, which are very valuable for the veterinary industry—from culture workshops to social media tool kits to guides on how to communicate better with your audience. So check it out. Geniusvets.com, and stay tuned next week. We're going to have another fantastic guest. And I really look forward to trying and bringing some valuable information to you guys. So thanks so much. Have a great day. See you next time.

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